Curse

Acan Vishnu · Jun 30, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

3000/40 = 75

75 conscecutive wins in the Tombs to get a single elite skill or superior rune.

So... What? Your not planning on killing anyone while your there?

Pitdragon · Jun 30, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

What I think a lot of you "lol u dum pvpers waant everyting on a sliver plater!" people don't get is that GW was advertised as the casual gamers mmorpg. If you read the FAQ on the official website, it says that you don't need to play through hours of boring stuff to get to the good stuff.

Would someone like to explain to me how this patch has made it so we don't? Sure, the PvP rewards are great, if you can spend a ton of time getting a decent guild and playing PvP. However, many people either can't or don't want to spend hours upon hours playing, and I'd guess that many people got this game because they saw it as a CASUAL GAME, not a grind-fest like every other mmorpg on the market.

This system is definately a good first step, but leaving in it's current state will do nothing to alleviate the grind that is frustrating players and causing them to leave. Many people don't want to spend an hour earning 1 or 2 new skills, considering that they have to unlock hundreds in order to experience everything the game has to offer. Sure, they have the option of playing premade characters, but a lot of people like playing this game because they can create their own builds and play with them, not simply because they can kill the other players. Why should it be that only the people who spend their days grinding away will be able to experience all that GW has to offer in any reasonable amount of time?

Ellestar · Jun 30, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Is this "guild" yours?.. if so then you should give up leadership to someone who knows how to run a guild.

If you are part of this "guild".. then its a shitty guild and you should look for another one.

Your problem has nothing to do with the game mechanics but with your inability to be part of a guild that is decent enough to arrange guild battles.. or is decent enough to recruit more people.., in fact.. the chances are, if you are having difficulties with this, then you are probably just a n00b anyway. well, scrub the probably.. you must be! if you have never played a guild battle with all your members (and not henchmen)

So if your not playing guild battles.. why the hell do you care about unlocking PVP stuff?.. your obviously still learning.

The Snowman

Haha nice
Weezer_Blue was OWNED on forums

He whined some more in another threads after this post, but it seems that he have nothing to respond to that so he didn't said anything here

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 30, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Well, as the self proclaimed authority on everything, (just ask me) I state,
"The patch is a step in the right direction."

True, they did not implement mandatory worhip of my person - yet.
True, I have to grind out 100,000,000 PvP missions in order to make the same points I can make by simply "zoning" in PvE. (Thank gawd I play PvE)
and true, this is a completely unbalanced, unfair, and impossibly screwy patch because I am still only the "diet coke" of Uberleetness:

Just 1 calorie - not uberleet enough.

I'll be back shortly - I have to go pitch a hissy fit, and then eat some cheetos.

Talesin

PieXags · Jun 30, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Well based on what I've read, the patch is in no way inbalanced, and it doesn't take nearly as long as you people and your numbers seemed to think. Looks like on average an hour and a half will get you a skill. Maybe two.

So now that we've tried it out, and see that it works just fine...there's not a problem.

And for those of you who still say it'll take forever, and that it's unbalanced, kinda like Weezer.

Well, you guys DID say you wanted this game to be more about skill than hours played right? Obivously you peoples don't have the skill it takes to get the proper amount of faction points.

Wiredzero · Jun 30, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

(Impersonation of average PvP player) "Oh bew hew, they didn't add an unlock everything button yet...I guess I'll have to go publicly cry some more."

Give it a rest already.

Seriously people. If you think about it, it's not unbalanced at all. PvP is about skill, use of skills available, proper timing and application of those skills. For the dedicated PvP player, you're still gaining something by doing it...knowledge on how to play your character.

Example: Let's say you lose in a battle...instead of whining about what skills you DON'T have, why not try to figure out how to use the ones you DO? There's a perfectly good listing of skills here on this very site. Go. Read. Formulate a build, and refine as you win and can unlock a skill.

Why have they put the priests in PvE? Simple. For all the work they've done in the game...why shouldn't they encourage someone to play it through at least once? Who knows...maybe in the process, you'll get a wild idea for a build that might be USEFUL. Either way, they've given you a nice oppourtunity. To get something out of doing something extra while you're doing a thing you want to do.

Here's an idea: Maybe...JUST MAYBE...the UAS would be a bad thing. Why? Because if you had everything unlocked, what would you work for? A better build than the next guy? That'd get old kinda fast, and you'd eventually get burned out on it rather quickly. But...with the system in place 'as is'...when you unlock something...it's because you EARNED it. (just like everyone else has to.) Which will deliver the gratification of a job well done, possibly a better refinement of your build, and spur you on to getting your next unlockable.

Either way. PvPers really need to quit crying about the UAS...it's getting old.

Divinitys Creature · Jun 30, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

PieXags

Half the thread is just you, pretty much repeating yourself with slight variation.

Let me refute your problems with the math. You were using your personal experience, and others also have stated their personal GvG experience, etc.

The math is based around a comparison between PvE skill point grinding and grinding faction in Tombs, arena and GvG. The math takes in to account that average players playing other average players will only win 50% of the time. From a great deal of experience in Tombs for example, I know the avaerage pug will not get past 3 victories. Actully I know that most of them don't even get past 1 and many don't even do that. Arenas are probably easier than tombs since you don't have to spend ages partying up with people. Since all of my guild has moved to BF2 I have been playing with random pugs to test how well they do and I see that I am on the ball. I have so far been accumulating faction at a rate of 0.8 per minute or 48 per hour, so 20 hours for a skill point, including partying and losses. The 7-8 hour calculation was optimistic and depended a fair amount of winning streaks - just to show faction grinding in a good light so the comparison couldn't be blames for unfairness.

A lot more testing needs to be done. Personally I don't even feel like playing anymore until they fix the numbers, I only played for testing my calculations. The pugs I played with were not bad at all, one had vent and made very good use of it.

Acan Vishnu · Jun 30, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

Let me refute your problems with the math. You were using your personal experience, and others also have stated their personal GvG experience, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinitys Creature

I have so far been accumulating faction at a rate of 0.8 per minute or 48 per hour, so 20 hours for a skill point, including partying and losses.

Your not using math to refute his or anyone elses experience, your using your own experiences, extrapolated out to a certain point. Everyone's experience will vary depending on skill and luck.

You can't put together a mathamatical formula that will show an average time to get X faction points, not without having many, many people inputting their findings. One person's findings will by no means give definitive results.

JasonJLore · Jun 30, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I'm just wondering where all these "mathematical" formulas are coming from. I jumped on for 2 hours last night - 2 hours. I played in the 4x4 RANDOM arenas, winning about 50% of the time. Along with my kill ratio I ended the evening with over 250 faction. I didnt even win half the time, I was just playing around having fun. I'd suggest that the whiners don't play so I can continue to fuss around and gain my faction - easily.

Forscience · Jun 30, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Guild Wars is fun. Other Games are not fun. Play Guild Wars!

Learn to play well or learn to play minesweeper. If you are going to cry when A-Net bends over backwards to add amazing content every week then I wouldent miss you when renew your WoW subscription.

This patch wasnt about giving you an easy way to obtain skills (A-net allready did that it is called PvE). It was about providing an alternative to people who want to get runes but didnt want to farm. Mission Accomplished! Excellent work A-Net!

Divinitys Creature · Jun 30, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acan Vishnu

Your not using math to refute his or anyone elses experience, your using your own experiences, extrapolated out to a certain point. Everyone's experience will vary depending on skill and luck.

You can't put together a mathamatical formula that will show an average time to get X faction points, not without having many, many people inputting their findings. One person's findings will by no means give definitive results.

Precisely, we can only do an order of magnitude calculation which is all I was doing. Since you request I could factor in the kills and then I could also factor in the my guildies make 3 skill points an hour in fissure, before they left. I could also factor in that people will not win 25 victories in a row. In tombs they will really only get to a max of 3 victories for most people most of the time. I won't do this tonight because I have been into this enough for today. When I do it will go into my main post I linked at first, I'll re-link it.

I really don't want to play much the way things are, but I feel a need to test faction rewards more rigorously. I will probably only do this casually but I will post my findings. Others may have more time for testing.

The whole point is that "the math" was intended only to be rigorous enough to show the big picture that we are somewhere over 10x wrong on the numbers, an order of magnitude. Probably closer to 10 than a hundred (two orders of magnitude). Thats how orders of magnitude calculations go, I should have labelled it explicitly as such. I would have reserved more accurate calculations and organised testing after Gaile comes and says something like "OK we realise the points are a factor of 10 or thereabouts wrong so help us work out how much the actual number is".

Oh and where you quoted me, "refute problems with the math" meant refuting PieXag's problems of where the 7-8 hour figure was coming from, not refute his problems by using more math.